How do you "harden" your rentals?
Dear Pocketers,
How do you harden / bullet-proof your rentals?
While I've never had anyone utterly trash a rental of mine, I've seen the damage they can do first hand (typically when buying the rental and seeing what the previous occupants did to it). Here are a few of the things I do:
One of my favorites, and easiest to do, is that I "frame" all wire racks, their support rods, towel holders, toilet paper holders, etc. using backer wood that is mounted to studs. If it's very visible, we'll route the edges and paint it like trim. If it's in a closet, it just gets wall color. This way, if the kids hang off the coat racks or someone abuses the towel holders, they may yank the hardware down, but it doesn't leave holes in the wall. It's also much harder to destroy them in the first place. Note the towel holder mounting:
When first buying a property, if it's easily accessible, I'll replace copper with Pex (plastic) plumbing from the get go, even if the copper is OK. I don't have to worry about it freezing and it's not a crime target.
We cage all of our A/C units now using custom fabricated 2 inch square tube, typically mounting them into the wall so the bolts have to be released from inside. I also lock exterior A/C circuit boxes and label the units, cage and circuit box with A/C specific alarm stickers that I had made up.
I will frequently install an inexpensive alarm system (not monitored) which gives me peace of mind between tenants and acts as a selling point when showing the units.
I've doubled up on door stops (to prevent doorknobs from going into walls). While I use the standard springy ones that mount into baseboard still, they tend to be targets for kids and end up missing, so I back these up with the plastic circles that affix to the wall where the handle would hit. (These are also great for just covering a previously made hole where the door knob hit the wall) They're expensive though, so I've started buying large, bulk packages of plastic, foam-backed pads that you set furniture on, and simply using double sided tape behind these. These cost maybe 30 cents apiece where the purpose built ones cost $3 apiece.
If I have to renovate a bathroom, I no longer use the plastic/fiberglass shower inserts. I've seen people put holes into both the tubs and crack the walls of these. For just a couple hundred more I'll have an iron tub installed and we'll tile the shower. It's a lot more attractive and seems to be a lot more durable in the long run.
What tricks have you learned to "harden" your own rentals?
Best,
- Chuck
Originally posted by @Roy N.:
Wood panelling is something best left in the 70s. Here it is usually prohibited in rental properties - fire marshall will insist it be removed.
And you're probably speaking of 1/4" paneling nailed over drywall, rather than 3/8 ply used instead of drywall. Makes me wonder about fancy solid wood wainscoting and coffered ceilings.
Originally posted by @Johann Jells:
Originally posted by @Roy N.:Wood panelling is something best left in the 70s. Here it is usually prohibited in rental properties - fire marshall will insist it be removed.And you're probably speaking of 1/4" paneling nailed over drywall, rather than 3/8 ply used instead of drywall. Makes me wonder about fancy solid wood wainscoting and coffered ceilings.
I attempted to address the 3/8 plywood above. Without a thermal barrier (i.e. drywall) or an intumescent coating to counter flame spread, there's little chance it would meet fire code. 3/4", or possibly, 5/8" may well meet fire code requirements - particularly if treated with an intumescent coating.
Old victorian wainscotting (not the faux 5/16" modern stuff) is 3/4" to 1" thick and the wood would be much denser that a modern 3/4" board. Though its 100+ years old, and dry, it would provide some barrier to flame spread.
Originally posted by @Josh Rowley:
One of my best landlording tips is buying and using kwikset smart key locks. They are about double the cost but are a huge benefit on turnovers or when tenants lose their keys. They allow u to re-key your locks in 30 seconds. Josh
Originally posted by @Roy N.:
I attempted to address the 3/8 plywood above. Without a thermal barrier (i.e. drywall) or an intumescent coating to counter flame spread, there's little chance it would meet fire code. 3/4", or possibly, 5/8" may well meet fire code requirements - particularly if treated with an intumescent coating.Old victorian wainscotting (not the faux 5/16" modern stuff) is 3/4" to 1" thick and the wood would be much denser that a modern 3/4" board. Though its 100+ years old, and dry, it would provide some barrier to flame spread.
Interesting. I've been trying to figure out the best way to construct a book case to replace the door to a defunct dumbwaiter shaft. I know it's gotta be fire rated like an stairwell or elevator shaft, but my local code office, always dysfunctional, changed to a perfect system (for them) where there's only voicemail and they never return calls. I decided to make it out of 2 layers of 3/4 fire treated ply, since I know 2 layers of 5/8 drywall would be acceptable. Better safe than sorry.
@Chuck B.would you happen to have a picture of the AC cage and the towel backer block ideas?
@Mykael Williamson - I posted the towel/toilet rod backer originally in this thread but it got lost over the years (stopped showing). I don't have any pictures of those with me but imagine a 1x4 piece of stock, cut a couple of inches larger than the full rod. Then the edges have a decorative routed edge put to them. This is then screwed/glued/caulked to the wall and all hardware screws into it. It definitely strengthens up the installation but takes more time up front.
Google is our friend . . .
After recently purchasing my first house I lived in it for 3 days to fix it up and hopefully discover potential problems. Every day I found something that could easily be fixed.
3 way switches wired wrong.
Shower water was reversed. Hot on cold side cold on hot side.
A ceiling fan was so far out of balance it began hitting the ceiling. One of the blades was missing a screw and its bracket was also missing a screw.
Cost to fix all of these was $0.82
Something mentioned only briefly is the benefit of PEX plumbing. I have toured a few properties with all copper cut out of the basement. Not an issue with pex. Materials are cheap and labor is faster. Freeze resistance is better than copper. If you use the central manifold approach you eliminate all joints from behind walls/under floors so leak detection/repair is less costly. I buy foreclosures and often have busted pipes from lack of winterization. Always better to do full pex than patch some type M copper timebomb. Also, replace old galvanized as you’re able. Some insurance companies exclude it.
I have been doing framed cut outs behind showers for easy access and shut off valves on each shower
I’ve just finished page 2 of this thread and this is amazing. I’ll keep on reading but if anyone has any more good tenant-proofing tips for kitchen + bathroom (especially floors/flooring selection) please post
@Johann Jells -"Those cabs are chinese imports from a local home center that are all wood, no particle, and have nice hardware, same price as the crap at the big boxes." Can you please share the Home center Details ?
Originally posted by @Charan K.:
@Johann Jells -"Those cabs are chinese imports from a local home center that are all wood, no particle, and have nice hardware, same price as the crap at the big boxes." Can you please share the Home center Details ?
I don't see how the name of a single store in Jersey City can help you, but it was Tsigonia paint and lumber.
@Johann Jells Thanks !! I will try them on my NY Rentals.
Aha. FWIW, they're distributed and assembled in Brooklyn, I was once in a hurry and they gave me the address to go pick them up. Far as I can tell it's kinda "no name", the brochure has no brand just a winged globe. I'm sure there's other vendors in NYC, I just wouldn't know how to find them other than calling lumber yards and such. Only the "oak" was really cheap, other colors were more.
I finally read all 15 pages of the comments! Incredible thread. I took notes for the tricks that are really helpful.
This question might be out of place on this thread but how much hardening is too much for a property (cost-wise)? To put this question into perspective, I just purchased a 4plex which rents $675 for a 3/2. There is a lot of 4plexs like this in the area so I plan to make mine stand out by replacing the default materials with a little bit nicer ones (durable). I'll have the picture posted so you guys will have an idea of how it originally looks.
Any tips would be much appreciated. Would you change anything or leave it as is? Thank you!
@Craig Stahl you just answered a question I've been contemplating for the past couple of days! Thank you so much!
I think I read it in the BRRRR book by David Greene mentioning what you suggest as rehab hacking.
There have been some amazing TTPs that have been mentioned, and many I'll be implementing. One tip I didn't see was during the rehab phase swapping out the sub-floor for pressure-treated plywood in the wet areas (bath, Laundry, etc.).
Originally posted by @Bryan Weiss:There have been some amazing TTPs that have been mentioned, and many I'll be implementing. One tip I didn't see was during the rehab phase swapping out the sub-floor for pressure-treated plywood in the wet areas (bath, Laundry, etc.).
Just use a coating of RedGuard under the finished flooring to get a water resistant subfloor. Pressure treated wood really shouldn’t be used indoors.
Originally posted by @Bryan Weiss:There have been some amazing TTPs that have been mentioned, and many I'll be implementing. One tip I didn't see was during the rehab phase swapping out the sub-floor for pressure-treated plywood in the wet areas (bath, Laundry, etc.).
Bryan:
As Steve stated, pressure treated wood should not be used within the conditioned/living space of the building. In most jurisdictions such use is prohibited and I would expect there to be insurance/liability issues with using it.
@Roy N. and @Steve Babiak good to know. I personally haven't used this tip (haven't done an extensive rehab yet), but I know of some investors that utilize this method within my market.
@Bryan Weiss@Roy N. @Steve Babiak
Agreed on limiting the use of pressure-treated (PT) wood indoors; however, in Minnesota it is a code requirement to use green/PT lumber for all bottom plates of basement walls. Window openings are typically wrapped with PT lumber as well. Reasoning is that the slab/foundation block may expose these components to condensation over time, and the treated lumber will (supposedly) hold up better. When using PT, also be sure your fasteners are rated for such (coated, electro-galvanized, etc). Standard fasteners typically corrode over time, when exposed to the chemicals infused in PT lumber, which can lead to fastener failure.
That being said, the basements of old were framed using standard lumber, and typically have held up just fine!
Agreed on the red guard for waterproofing plywood - solid tip there!
Interesting that the use of PT for your sill is a code requirement. I've encountered situations where using PT is not explicitly addressed - i.e. sill and rim in an unaccessible crawl space - but mostly it is explicitly forbidden from use in living spaces. What measures does Minnesota code require to isolate the PT from the living space?
We have many "basements of old" here with double 6x6 (or 8x8) or single large timber sills resting on rubble foundation walls. Hemlock was the local timber of choice. Many of these are still in decent condition after 150 - 200yrs ... however, "lumber of old" was denser - the trees were older - than what we have today.
@Roy N. It is an interesting topic. We limit use as much as possible, and I agree that non-treated wood (especially old-growth), hasn't historically shown deterioration issues. As far as encapsulation, there aren't any specific requirements in MN code. For example, mechanical rooms are often framed with sheetrock on the exterior/livable side of the walls only, and the framing left completely exposed on the interior/unfinished side. We try to fully finish walls as much as possible, and seal bottom plates, but it doesn't always happen (some clients don't want to spend the money on it, or aren't bothered by the open conditions).
I always tell clients, there's building code, and then there's logic...unfortunately the two don't always live in harmony. In Minnesota, you're required to have a ventilation/exhaust fan in a bathroom, unless it has an operable window. Who in their right mind showers with the window open when it's -30F in January? I guess there's a reason they specify code as "minimum building standards"!