How do you "harden" your rentals?
Dear Pocketers,
How do you harden / bullet-proof your rentals?
While I've never had anyone utterly trash a rental of mine, I've seen the damage they can do first hand (typically when buying the rental and seeing what the previous occupants did to it). Here are a few of the things I do:
One of my favorites, and easiest to do, is that I "frame" all wire racks, their support rods, towel holders, toilet paper holders, etc. using backer wood that is mounted to studs. If it's very visible, we'll route the edges and paint it like trim. If it's in a closet, it just gets wall color. This way, if the kids hang off the coat racks or someone abuses the towel holders, they may yank the hardware down, but it doesn't leave holes in the wall. It's also much harder to destroy them in the first place. Note the towel holder mounting:
When first buying a property, if it's easily accessible, I'll replace copper with Pex (plastic) plumbing from the get go, even if the copper is OK. I don't have to worry about it freezing and it's not a crime target.
We cage all of our A/C units now using custom fabricated 2 inch square tube, typically mounting them into the wall so the bolts have to be released from inside. I also lock exterior A/C circuit boxes and label the units, cage and circuit box with A/C specific alarm stickers that I had made up.
I will frequently install an inexpensive alarm system (not monitored) which gives me peace of mind between tenants and acts as a selling point when showing the units.
I've doubled up on door stops (to prevent doorknobs from going into walls). While I use the standard springy ones that mount into baseboard still, they tend to be targets for kids and end up missing, so I back these up with the plastic circles that affix to the wall where the handle would hit. (These are also great for just covering a previously made hole where the door knob hit the wall) They're expensive though, so I've started buying large, bulk packages of plastic, foam-backed pads that you set furniture on, and simply using double sided tape behind these. These cost maybe 30 cents apiece where the purpose built ones cost $3 apiece.
If I have to renovate a bathroom, I no longer use the plastic/fiberglass shower inserts. I've seen people put holes into both the tubs and crack the walls of these. For just a couple hundred more I'll have an iron tub installed and we'll tile the shower. It's a lot more attractive and seems to be a lot more durable in the long run.
What tricks have you learned to "harden" your own rentals?
Best,
- Chuck
We have used a Leviton switch similar to that one as well. Our solution has been an evolving one.
We started out with lights and fan on separate switches - people did not bother to turn the fan on, or they turned it off when they turned the light off. Moving the lights and fan onto the same switch only solved the turning the fan on problem. Next we went to a timer and found folks wouldn't bother to set it ... back to the turning the fan on problem.
At the moment we are using a couple of different varieties of integrated timers and humidistats. The simplest one is a switch made under the name "DewStop" Originally their switches came with an integrated timer preset to 30 minutes plus a humidistat preset at 70% relative humidity. They also made a version which has two switches .... one to control the fan with the integrated timer and humidistat and a second for the lights.
This spring, they launched new versions of these two switches which now allow you to set the timer duration and the relative humidity at which the fan would be activated.
The DewStop switch is the most convenient to retrofit to an existing bathroom or laundry room. The downside is the humidistat is integrated and, as such, is located at the switch - which may not be the most optimal place in the room to locate a humidistat. Now that you can adjust the sensitivity of the humidistat, you can compensate for this to some degree. Naturally, this solution will not work if your light and fan switches are outside the bathroom.
The second solution we use in major retrofits is to install a receptacle box in the washroom (or laundry room) at approximately 6' from the floor (2 -3 ft from the ceiling), or use a separate octagon box in the ceiling, in which we mount a humidistat that is wired in parallel to the {timer} switch on the fan. I'll upload a diagram and pictures this evening.
^^This is a great idea, re: humidstat wired in parallel to the fan switch. I don't think I'll get to it on my current reno but next chance I get I will probably put something like that in.
This is on my Amazon shopping list for my current reno, is a single box switch with no sensor. Seems most foolproof solution, especially if you also want to clear, um, non-humid but undesirable air from the bathroom.
Air King AKDT60 Delay Timer Switch
- Turns your fan and light on simultaneously
- Allows you to turn the light off while the fan continues to operate for an additional preset time
- Operation time for the fan can be adjusted from 1 to 60-minutes
the only problem I see with that is that if I am just going to the bathroom in the middle of the night to take a leak then the fan is pointless, and now I have to listen to it run for the next 30 mins, especially as it ages and starts to make more noise while running.
Originally posted by @Kevin Harrison:
the only problem I see with that is that if I am just going to the bathroom in the middle of the night to take a leak then the fan is pointless, and now I have to listen to it run for the next 30 mins, especially as it ages and starts to make more noise while running.
yes, except panasonic fans (i advertise them to everyone!! lol) are so quiet, you wont even know it's on. honest!
Originally posted by @Roy N.:
We have used a Leviton switch similar to that one as well. Our solution has been an evolving one.
We started out with lights and fan on separate switches - people did not bother to turn
what about a fan that already has the Relative Humidity senson already built in it?
panasonic (lol) has it!
"A built-in humidity sensor detects rapid rise in relative humidity (RH), automatically turning on the fan to remove moisture and helping to prevent mold and mildew. Built-in adjustable delay timer can be set from 30 seconds to 60 minutes and activates when motion is no longer detected or when humidity levels are below preset levels. Already remarkably energy efficient, our auto shut off feature can help eliminate unnecessary energy use and further reduce operating costs. Three ways the fan can function. Motion on/Motion off Motion on/Humidity off Humidity on/Humidity off Humidity switch is adjustable from 30-Percentage to 80-Percentage and factory set for 50-Percentage Timer switch is adjustable from 30 seconds to 60 minutes and factory set for 10 minutes"
here it is!
We use the Panasonic Whisper and WhisperGreen (DC motor) fans (110 - 150 cfm) in all of our bathroom retrofits. There are several models in the family ranging from a straight fan; to one with lights; one with lights and nightlight; to models with a humidistat and/or occupancy sensor.
Where there is an existing fan that we are not ready to replace, we normally use the DewStop switches. When we do full renovation on a bathroom, we typically use the Whisper fan model with light and {perhaps} night light. There are typically two reasons we do not use the model with the built-in humidistat:
1) the markup to the model with the humidistat over the fan/light/nightlight model is significant enough to make it more cost effective to use our own humidistat;
2) when we have installed an HRV/ERV in the unit, we will use a common humidistat in the bathroom or laundry room to call the ventilator.
Originally posted by @George P.:
Originally posted by @Kevin Harrison:the only problem I see with that is that if I am just going to the bathroom in the middle of the night to take a leak then the fan is pointless, and now I have to listen to it run for the next 30 mins, especially as it ages and starts to make more noise while running.
yes, except panasonic fans (i advertise them to everyone!! lol) are so quiet, you wont even know it's on. honest!
Its not that I don't believe you, its just that ive never seen a fan older than a couple of years that doesn't make noise. but then again I haven't tried any of that Panasonic ones.
The Panasonic Whisper and WhisperLite are among the quietest fans you will find. The WhisperGreen versions (DC brushless motors) are also efficient enough for use in Passivhaus builds and EnerPHit retrofits.
This is a fantastic thread. Thanks for all of the ideas.
Originally posted by @Vonetta Booker:
Originally posted by @Jason S.:Originally posted by Rob K:Half these people look like they rarely wash their clothes anyway. Some of them increase two sizes every six months. They don't need a washer or dryer. They just get bigger clothes.
Sad how many here thought this was funny. I have been working with some non-profit housing agencies on a few projects lately and it is no wonder so many are hostile to "Investors".
I agree..."these people" are the ones lining investors pockets!
I haven't had a tenant buy,repair and give me a house that I didn't have to maintain. I haven't been given anything to line my pockets with. Only paid what was agreed upon in a contract. Maybe someone besides yourself lines your pockets, I would love to meet them!
Just found this thread. Posting to bookmark. Thanks for all of the good ideas.
One topic I hadn't seen addressed: we make our own bath vanities. Particle board/MDF in a rental bathroom is asking for trouble. Ours are made from plywood (oak or birch), and are sturdy and can be made to any size that's needed. It's an easy one day project, (maybe two days depending on the selected finish and drying time) and costs less than those particle board ones. We get two nice sized vanities from each 4x8 piece of plywood. If we need a non-standard size top, we buy a solid surface top from the Habitat ReStore or Craigslist that's a little too big, we cut it down and finish the edges. We purchase custom sized doors online.
Originally posted by @Tanya F.:
Just found this thread. Posting to bookmark. Thanks for all of the good ideas.
One topic I hadn't seen addressed: we make our own bath vanities. Particle board/MDF in a rental bathroom is asking for trouble.
There's a lot of decent quality no particle import cabs available. I just did a kitchen of Fabuwood, and was very impressed with the value and construction. But I've used Chinese import cabs of half that cost and they still look good 10 years out. If I was going to DIY a top it would be granite tiles. I've done 5 kitchens with great success. Did my own vanity of marble tiles and would not do it again, too porous no matter how much you seal.
Photo is of super cheap cabs with $5/ft granite tiles.
Thanks, @Johann Jells. Had not heard of that line. Looks like they're made in your area. We'll certainly check them out for pricing. Making our own (not for everyone) definitely has the advantage of custom sizing.
Originally posted by @Tanya F.:Thanks, @Johann Jells. Had not heard of that line. Looks like they're made in your area. We'll certainly check them out for pricing. Making our own (not for everyone) definitely has the advantage of custom sizing.
Their importer's warehouse is nearby. The only real advantage is they're assembled by experts. The turnaround is a week minimum, on the cheaper chinese stuff assembled in Brooklyn it's overnight.
I've built my own using ply and edge veneer, like you ordering the doors, but not for rentals. I don't find it cost effective, I can usually design a kitchen using stock sizes and fillers.
What I'd really like to find is a supplier of quality all-ply Euro style frameless at a similar price point to the Fabuwood and it's ilk. For very small kitchens it give more space, especially in the drawers.
Originally posted by @Bob Tribble:
I haven't had a tenant buy,repair and give me a house that I didn't have to maintain. I haven't been given anything to line my pockets with. Only paid what was agreed upon in a contract. Maybe someone besides yourself lines your pockets, I would love to meet them!
Yeah, Bob...someone DOES line my pockets; they're called tenants. The fact is (whether you want to accept it or not), you can buy and repair a buy/hold til the cows come home...it's all for naught unless you have TENANTS in them who are giving you some cash flow...aka "lining your pockets." Have a good evening.
Originally posted by @Tanya F.:
Just found this thread. Posting to bookmark. Thanks for all of the good ideas.
One topic I hadn't seen addressed: we make our own bath vanities. Particle board/MDF in a rental bathroom is asking for trouble. Ours are made from plywood (oak or birch), and are sturdy and can be made to any size that's needed. It's an easy one day project, (maybe two days depending on the selected finish and drying time) and costs less than those particle board ones. We get two nice sized vanities from each 4x8 piece of plywood. If we need a non-standard size top, we buy a solid surface top from the Habitat ReStore or Craigslist that's a little too big, we cut it down and finish the edges. We purchase custom sized doors online.
there isn't a more frustrating project than building wooden cabinets.
u need very, very good tools, lots of space, and still, the corners won't line up. the gaps won't be consistent, the door won't be flushed. u really need lots and lots of practice to get it decent looking
This is a neat topic, a real nitty gritty practical one for real landlords.
Just a few to add (granted, I only browsed these, so someone may have mentioned one or two of these) but let's keep this forum fresh and renewed:
1) Buy durable, rental condition units up front (nothing fragile, fancy or or too high end). Newbies sometimes buy model home looking rentals only to find tenants treat them like, well rentals.
2) Polyurethane on wood surfaces. I like the Polyshades stain combo for a one time application on properly prepped cabinets, wood window trim, and even floor trim and doors; it is an added layer of protection against all sorts of mischief (stains, smudges, scratches, etc).
3) Closet doors be gone... Someday a scientist will discover the complicated relationship tenants have with closet doors.. Working perfect and smooth at the lease signing, they are often broken, disassembled or removed by the turn over... My angle... why fight it. I take them out when broken and add a cheap tension shower rod and attractive grommet curtain. Tenants like it. Easy to replace, even washable. Cheap, too.
4) Rug and mats. Each tenant gets new ones--worth their weight in gold for stopping dirt and even catching stains, preventing noise and protecting laminate floors and linoleum from scuff and scratches... I have even seen area rugs catch disaster candle spills, pet accidents and more (just roll up and toss and rinse and repeat; buy em on sale!)
Love this topic..... and all these ideas... May post more later...
As I read all your comments about tenants tearing things up I wonder why you all tolerate this behavior from tenants? Do you let your children tear up Your Own house? <g> Tenants tearing up one thing in a property is an accident. I smile, wonder, out loud, about it, and then fully take care of it. Tearing up two things is a suspicion and a highly disapproving warning about repeating it goes with the remedy. Tearing up three things is either deliberately adversarial or someone with luck so bad that I don't want them anywhere near me. I then lead with an eviction notice.
Double Door stops, Spring baseboard and wall knob ball
Flooring:
Allure 1x3 tile style for Kitchens
Porcelain for Bath rooms
Allure Ultra for the rest of house
Plastic totes under sinks or scrap Vinyl flooring
Kwikset Rekey kit for locks (I can remove and rekey a lock in 5 minutes) sometimes I use the same keys by filing down and changing one pin.
I change Furnace filters every 2 to 3 months and check under all sinks while there.
If doing renovation I make close door openings smaller and install single hinged doors to get rid of sliders. for big closet openings I plan on dividing closet and using two standard doors.
I just read all 250 posts. This is good.
To add, I own and manage my own MH rentals, so low to low middle. I use VCT tile on kitchen and bath floors, also at entry step offs, though sometime I use hardi & ceramic there. Also, FRP panels on bath walls.
Hardened <mike drop>
Originally posted by @Steven Wiltz:
I just read all 250 posts. This is good.
To add, I own and manage my own MH rentals, so low to low middle
Could you put rent numbers to that? What's considered low in parts of my market might amaze you. My 'definitely not luxury' units rent for ~$1400-1800.
I rent 2/1s for 850-900; 3/1s for 1000, 3/2s ~1200
Originally posted by @Steven Wiltz:
I rent 2/1s for 850-900; 3/1s for 1000, 3/2s ~1200
Me, if I was getting $1200 and the K & B subfloors were good enough for VCT I'd put in ceramic. VCT just says "institutional". And a lot of people put it down over inadequate subfloors and it cracks.
Anyone has suggestions of what type of water heater? We own couple rentals and looks like water heater is a constant pain to replace. Each unit has one. Is it worthwhile to get a water heater with long warranty or lifetime warranty? Or is it better off to just get the cheapest (6 years warranty) and keep replacing? Thoughts?
Elisa